Advice on suppliments for hardgainer (UK)

[nx1977]

UK based

Until now done reasonably well without supplements adding 1" to shoulders and arms without any diet change.

But realising to add the extra 2-3" in my goal to tone and add shape/definition, I'm going to need supplements.

I've been using 2x Maximilk's daily for the last week and had my biggest weekly increase in my arms (0.25"), legs (0.2") and weight (1lb) since starting training. But they are flipping expensive at £2.50 per bottle and £5 per day! I did try a cheaper brand but was bloated and more lathargic than with the maximuscle version.

As such i'm looking at powders which have a lower daily cost. I'd prefer to stay with Maximuscle, but confused by all the various products. Which one do I want? Progain extreme, Promax extreme or Cyclone? Do they all taste similar if using the same flavour? I've always struggled to put on weight until starting training, so classing myself as a hardgainer or Ectomorph.

And importantly, where can I walk in and buy easily for the best/cheapest price?


Many Thanks.


Any help from people using Maximuscle is appreciated.

[Deviation]

Want the easiest, cheapest way to gain weight? Eat more. I'm not a fan of mass/weight gainers. Pretty much a ton of calories without the nutrition of food.

What's your current routine look like? Age/Height/Weight? Goal weight?

[tjwood]

Until now done reasonably well without supplements adding 1" to shoulders and arms without any diet change.

Well there's your big hint.

Presumably your initial gains were fuelled by excess calories you already had in your diet and/or body fat stores. Now you need to sort out your diet to keep gaining further!

And how are you measuring an increase of 0.2 inches? This could be just variation in the way you hold the tape measure/swelling caused by recent exercise/differences in hydration levels etc. A difference of 1lb bodyweight from one week to the next is fairly insignificant, it could be down to hydration levels or a particularly large meal etc. It's long term trends you are interested in not the difference from one day/week to the next.

Personally I've never taken any supplements and have been happy with my gains over the past 11 months - I've not gone crazy but have steadily been gaining muscle without significant changes in body fat. It's slightly worrying that the Supplements forum gains more traffic here than the Food and Nutrition one!

[Robertrogo]

Want the easiest, cheapest way to gain weight? Eat more. I'm not a fan of mass/weight gainers. Pretty much a ton of calories without the nutrition of food.

Exactly, the best way if you want to gain more weight but doing it cheaply is to just eat more and eat more protein/carbs. Get instant brown rice, cheap pastas, tuna, beans like kidney and black beans, anything that you can significantly get calories from BUT healthy forms of food not just junk food and nonsense, you save yourself on money and not spending 60$ on 4lbs of weight gainer that only lasts you 15 days, not worth the effort on that end at all

[nx1977]

Thanks all.

As I say for years I've eaten more yet my metabolism means I dont really put on any weight given what I eat. I've added more protein, but due to my job driving, I cant add additional meals or start having 6 meals a day easily.

I've come to the conclusion that diet alone isnt going to cut it, and I'm going to need supplements. Not on about 4 portions of it a day, maybe one or 2 MAX.

I'm 34, 5'9 and currently 136lbs (been within 15-20lbs of this since 18 ). Goal wise I'm unsure how to equate my desired arm/chest etc sizes into an overall weight gain goal.

Workoutwise I started with - http://www.jefit.com/routines/workout-routine-database.php?id=6064

And am now on week 2 of - http://www.jefit.com/routines/workout-routine-database.php?id=6030

[Deviation]

I think you need to apply some K.I.S.S. here.

As I say for years I've eaten more yet my metabolism means I dont really put on any weight given what I eat. I've added more protein, but due to my job driving, I cant add additional meals or start having 6 meals a day easily.
Then you need to eat more. Don't get so hung up on the 4-6 meals a day. Just eat.

Your BMR is 1560 calories. That's just what you need to exist at your current weight. If you want to get bigger, you need to add some calories to this. If you think about it, an average weightlifting routine might burn 300-400 calories in an hour. You will need to consume the 400 calories back just to stay level. That's 1960 calories. If you want to bulk up, add on some more calories. I'd shoot for around 2300-2500 calories to start.

As for your routine, switch to a strength routine like Starting Strength or StrongLifts. They are simplistic, but very effective at achieving what you're trying to do. There's also this routine: http://www.jefit.com/routines/workout-routine-database.php?id=2909 That worked well for me (read the thread referenced in there).

[Deviation]

It's slightly worrying that the Supplements forum gains more traffic here than the Food and Nutrition one!
How many ads for Tyson's boneless chicken breasts do you see in the fitness mags? ;)

[Robertrogo]

How many ads for Tyson's boneless chicken breasts do you see in the fitness mags? ;)

Haha exactly, PETA would be all over that in a heartbeat, they promote nutrition and food but in the forms of "This can be your muscle gaining diet plan" and tell you to eat chicken breast but of course don't show off advertisements for milk or chicken or any of those products.

They know supplements are a money making machine and if you have the right advertisement for a supplement, you are going to gain attention from people, THUS make significant amounts of money from people believing they can have 6 pack abs just from taking protein or a pre workout or shoving down diet pills like a champ haha.

Supplements are good in terms of taking a protein powder, multi vitamin and even creatine but one of the most important things about working out and trying to either bulk up or lose weight is to properly maintain a balanced and healthy diet. Diet and working out together is key. Supplements at times provide that extra boost you need to build and repair muscle, gain that motivation, increase your bloodflow and so forth in the gym. I take both routes cause im stupid like that haha ;)

[tjwood]

I've added more protein, but due to my job driving, I cant add additional meals or start having 6 meals a day easily.

You know, a "meal" in this context doesn't have to be hot food eaten off a plate. A couple of your "meals" can be healthy snacks, such as a handful or two of unsalted peanuts, a peanut butter/wholemeal bread sandwich, a bowl of porridge (oatmeal), a pot of natural yogurt or quark etc.

I regularly eat breakfast, lunch and dinner - proper "meals" - plus a handful of peanuts mid-morning, a bowl of porridge mid-afternoon, and a tub of quark before bed - that's six "feedings" without much effort. (Also on workout days, I have a homemade banana/yogurt shake while I'm getting changed after my workout and a peanut butter/jam sandwich in the car on the way to work afterwards).

[nx1977]

I think you need to apply some K.I.S.S. here.

Then you need to eat more. Don't get so hung up on the 4-6 meals a day. Just eat.

Your BMR is 1560 calories. That's just what you need to exist at your current weight. If you want to get bigger, you need to add some calories to this. If you think about it, an average weightlifting routine might burn 300-400 calories in an hour. You will need to consume the 400 calories back just to stay level. That's 1960 calories. If you want to bulk up, add on some more calories. I'd shoot for around 2300-2500 calories to start.

As for your routine, switch to a strength routine like Starting Strength or StrongLifts. They are simplistic, but very effective at achieving what you're trying to do. There's also this routine: http://www.jefit.com/routines/workout-routine-database.php?id=2909 That worked well for me (read the thread referenced in there).

Working out the last 3 days calories intake, I've been over 2500 each of those days. And I would consider those pretty normal.

Take lunch as an example. Just the bread weighs in at over 1200cals, breakfast cereal (wholegrain hoops) & milk is 800cal.

As I say, I'm of a build whereby despite this my weight has changed very little in 20+ years.

[tjwood]

Working out the last 3 days calories intake, I've been over 2500 each of those days. And I would consider those pretty normal.

Take lunch as an example. Just the bread weighs in at over 1200cals, breakfast cereal (wholegrain hoops) & milk is 800cal.

Are you sure your calculations are right? How much bread are you eating for lunch?! 1200 cals is about 500-600 grams of bread, that's between half and three quarters of a large loaf! And if your cereal is something like Cheerios then you must be eating about 150 grams of cereal with a whole pint of semi-skimmed milk to get to 800 calories - that's 4 or 5 standard portions!

In any case 2500 calories is probably too few for someone who is quite active - that's the approximate daily amount generally quoted for the average man - i.e. someone who drives to work, sits at a desk all day, maybe walks to the local shops or goes for a short jog every so often, and that's about it. If you exercise hard several times a week you probably want significantly more than that.


It's a fairly simple equation really. Broadly speaking, eat fewer calories than you burn - you lose weight. Eat more than you burn - you gain weight. Eat about the same amount as you burn - you stay about the same. If you want to gain weight you need to eat more!

[Deviation]

Working out the last 3 days calories intake, I've been over 2500 each of those days. And I would consider those pretty normal.

Take lunch as an example. Just the bread weighs in at over 1200cals, breakfast cereal (wholegrain hoops) & milk is 800cal.

As I say, I'm of a build whereby despite this my weight has changed very little in 20+ years.

What kind of bread are you eating?!? That's enough calories to be at least half loaf of bread. And how much cereal are you taking in? Are you sure you're not using cream? Sheesh.

I agree with tjwood, something isn't adding up correctly.

[nx1977]

Yup, miscalculated these 2. Bread was 452 and cereal inc milk 205.

Going over those days again, Have calculate days as 2251, 2109 and 2002cals. Was just the bread and cereal I messed up calculating. Muddled KJ and KC

[tjwood]

Going over those days again, Have calculate days as 2251, 2109 and 2002cals.

Then the answer is pretty clear, you definitely need to eat more!

[Deviation]

Don't feel bad man, I think we've all been there. I know I have. Ate a week straight thinking I was over my calories only to find out I didn't add them up right.

Try using an app like MyFitnessPal. Works great.

[nx1977]

Don't feel bad man, I think we've all been there. I know I have. Ate a week straight thinking I was over my calories only to find out I didn't add them up right.

Try using an app like MyFitnessPal. Works great.

Thanks.

I thought I was calorie overloading given the Mrs' counting hers like mad and how little she has a day.

Thanks for the app suggestion. Loaded and tracking. Initially back tracking since my last post, I seem to be struggling to get over 2300/day. I'm just plain full or had been thinking I'd done enough.

Need to evaluate replacing a few things it seems.

[nx1977]

Just an update to say I've been hitting my intake targets thanks to the suggested app myfitnesspal.

Seeing strength increases, but struggling to add size.

[Deviation]

It will come. Just keep the calories coming and hit the heavy weights.

[nx1977]

Thanks.

Much harder than I thought, but not giving up given how much better I feel and how much stronger I am now.

[tjwood]

Much harder than I thought, but not giving up given how much better I feel and how much stronger I am now.

If it was easy it wouldn't be so rewarding, would it? :-)

[Robertrogo]

It will come. Just keep the calories coming and hit the heavy weights.

Exactly if you keep eating and lifting heavier weights, your body will adjust to this change and you will be able to bulk up more, gain more muscle and weight and see the results you are looking for.

Supplements are used in a way to aid your body either in recovery, maintaining joints and muscle fibers or even giving yourself that extra boost to get a pump in the gym but for many they feel that they need to go overboard and overload with supplements when even most of the time supplements arent needed at all. The advertisements in magazines and on the internet make you feel that the only way to gain muscle, strength and size is to take this SUPER SUPPLEMENT and stack your body full of drugs and ingredients in which that is not the case at all. A good diet plan, living a healthy and drug free life and just motivation and focus on what you want can help you see the results that you want out of your workout plan.

I take protein, creatine and a stimulant pre workout more or less for the rebuilding of my muscles and maintaining my muscles through the protein and creatine and I take a stimulant pre-workout because I lift around 5:30 / 6 pm due to work, and when you are waking up at 6am every morning, working from 8 to 5 and then getting to the gym, you are worn out which I like to give myself that little extra push to start my workout.

Supplements aren't the key, a good diet and right frame of mind are and the results will just come! ;)

[BrianV]

I read somewhere hardgainer=undereater

[Deviation]

I read somewhere hardgainer=undereater
Pretty much everywhere...except magazines and supplement websites. ;)

[Robertrogo]

Pretty much everywhere...except magazines and supplement websites. ;)

Haha yea that's true, supplement magazines won't tell you a thing about that, what can you do though