PDA

View Full Version : What's best? Creatine, Protein, mass gainer



mrwright
05-18-2011, 08:22 PM
Hey all.
pretty much just starting out the gym, been going for a few weeks, and just wanting the best help i can get from supplements, only problem is i'm kind of a wierd mix of fat and skinny, have like skinny arms chest etc where you'd want abit of mass, but fat like around the stomach and core area, abit of legs etc

Just wondering what would be the best suggestions from people in the know?
And would a weight/mass gainer help me gain size all over, or would it just make me fatter where i don't want it?

Currently using Nitro Isolate 65 Pro Series MuscleTech protein about half an hour after a workout and last thing at night.

And Olimp creatine Xplode first thing in the morning and about 5 10 mins after a workout

And any suggestions of cheap protein, but something that's really good
(in UK)

Also, any suggestions for a workout that might help, currently using the basic JEFIT bulker, with a slight adjustment

Thanks.

beardedhobo
05-18-2011, 08:39 PM
Hi Mate I'm no nutritionist but i can give you a bit of advice!

My current goal is roughly the same as you; I have developed a bit of a gut I'd like to get rid of; I'd suggest taking protein rather than weight gainer until you get your fat off; it should allow you to put mass on your chest but won't provide the carbs you will store as fat on your stomach and legs. Once you get rid of the fat you can then get on the weight gainer to bulk up quickly!

In the way of routines check out my Power muscle burn 4 day split; its 4 days of weights with two days of running; the weights should build up your strength and the running/cardio work help to get rid of any excess fat. You could even do running in the morning and the weights at night if you wanted to (i don't do this as i don't have the time!)

In the way of supplements check out http://www.supplementcentre.com/ProductPage/12024/Matrix-Lean-Muscle-Stack.asp

I'm using that at the moment, creatine, BCAA's and the protein and i've had pretty good results so far!

If anyone wants to give him any better advice feel free, like i said i'm no expert!

Hope this helps matey!

Jamie

mrwright
05-18-2011, 08:59 PM
Hi Mate I'm no nutritionist but i can give you a bit of advice!

My current goal is roughly the same as you; I have developed a bit of a gut I'd like to get rid of; I'd suggest taking protein rather than weight gainer until you get your fat off; it should allow you to put mass on your chest but won't provide the carbs you will store as fat on your stomach and legs. Once you get rid of the fat you can then get on the weight gainer to bulk up quickly!

In the way of routines check out my Power muscle burn 4 day split; its 4 days of weights with two days of running; the weights should build up your strength and the running/cardio work help to get rid of any excess fat. You could even do running in the morning and the weights at night if you wanted to (i don't do this as i don't have the time!)

In the way of supplements check out http://www.supplementcentre.com/ProductPage/12024/Matrix-Lean-Muscle-Stack.asp

I'm using that at the moment, creatine, BCAA's and the protein and i've had pretty good results so far!

If anyone wants to give him any better advice feel free, like i said i'm no expert!

Hope this helps matey!

Jamie


I'm not to worried about my fat, hopefully i can burn that off with my workouts and abit of cardio each time, and by improving my diet etc or after i've gained abit of decent mass

would the mass gainer help add bulk all over, or would i just end up fat?

An thanks for the help and the link, the price of that is insanely cheap!!, cost me 30 quid for 2lbs of protein!!

mrwright
05-18-2011, 09:15 PM
Well it depends on the way that you are working out and how you are eating the mass gainer because of course as you know mass gainer contains a significant amount of carbs, calories and of course protein, so it is in terms a meal substitute to help you build more mass and gain more weight in the process of working out. It wont technically turn to fat unless you aren't working out then of course it will transition into fat in the process due to the fact that all of the calories, sugars and carbs are sitting there in your belly not being workout out.

Mass gainer is a great product but it depends on the way that you go about using it because for the price you are paying for mass gainer, you can eat a significant amount of carbs and cheap proteins from the grocery store and get the same effect. My choice would be to stick with just straight Whey Protein because creatine can put on water weight which if you don't work out will show its effects on you (I have had that experience before and not soo much fun haha)

The creatine i'm loving, lifting more weight, more reps, needing less breaks etc and as i've got abit of fat on my already the water weight isn't much of a problem

And i'm doing 3 days a week with occasional cardio (football) and aiming to get big, 3 sets, 8-10 reps, as soon as i can do 9 or 10 i add an extra 5kg etc

beardedhobo
05-19-2011, 09:28 AM
Try the matrix weight gain from that site I gave you above I was taking it before Xmas and gained half a stone in a month and a half, eating well too tho! Try some bcaa too they will help with recovery and promote lean muscle growth! Don't go overboard on the creatine its bad for fitness and your liver!

Deviation
05-19-2011, 02:13 PM
I'm not a fan of weight gainer. Like Robert said, you can eat real food and get the same effects. The diet is probably the hardest part. In the end if you master the diet, you'll be better off overall.

Most quality protein powders will have BCAAs (branched chain amino acids). I use EAS which is full of them. Also, go easy on the creatine if you're taking the powder plus a supplement containing creatine. It may be wise to cycle with it. Drink plenty of water. That's true with any work out though.

To answer the original question of "which is the best": the one that works the best for you. Everyone is different.

I did see that you modified the beginner's routine. If you're just starting out, don't do that. Stick with it for a few weeks before you think about making adjustments. Here's a routine derived from BodyBuilding.com (note that I added cardio & abs as suggested later in that thread): http://www.jefit.com/routines/routine/?id=2416 It's a good beginning routine. While you may think to yourself (as I did) "this looks too simplistic"; try it for 5 weeks. ;)

mrwright
05-19-2011, 11:46 PM
I'm not a fan of weight gainer. Like Robert said, you can eat real food and get the same effects. The diet is probably the hardest part. In the end if you master the diet, you'll be better off overall.

Most quality protein powders will have BCAAs (branched chain amino acids). I use EAS which is full of them. Also, go easy on the creatine if you're taking the powder plus a supplement containing creatine. It may be wise to cycle with it. Drink plenty of water. That's true with any work out though.

To answer the original question of "which is the best": the one that works the best for you. Everyone is different.

I did see that you modified the beginner's routine. If you're just starting out, don't do that. Stick with it for a few weeks before you think about making adjustments. Here's a routine derived from BodyBuilding.com (note that I added cardio & abs as suggested later in that thread): http://www.jefit.com/routines/routine/?id=2416 It's a good beginning routine. While you may think to yourself (as I did) "this looks too simplistic"; try it for 5 weeks. ;)

yea i pretty much drink nothing but water none stop anyway, it's amazing the difference you can notive when you've not drank much as opposed to being properly hydrated!

an the only adjustments are really to fit it in with my gym, pretty small place so is just like swapping some barbell things with dumbells swapping an exercise that i don't have the equipment for for 1 that does the same muscles that i can do kinda thing

BrianS2
05-22-2011, 07:38 PM
PREWORKOUT (creatine): (to get your body in the mood): initially i started with nano vapor, then moved to black powder (this didnt work for me), then dark rage. im also experimenting with jack3d right now and contrary to the majority of reviews, its not working for me.

POST WORKOUT (protein): i use isomass xtreme gainer - ive found its the most bang for your buck out there. however there are supplements out there that absorb much faster, (thats a very good advantage to have) such as, dark matter and GNC's supplements. However these supplements are much more expensive. if youre interested tho i'd do a google search for them and purchase them online, much cheaper.

I also have a mega men sport vitamins in my stack.

Deviation
05-23-2011, 02:22 AM
im also experimenting with jack3d right now and contrary to the majority of reviews, its not working for me.

I use Jack3d as well. The only thing I will say is that it tends to lose its effect at a certain point. Or rather takes more for the same feeling. Guess I need to cycle with it. Friend of mine said the same. The watermelon flavor is amazing though.

Deviation
05-23-2011, 05:16 PM
You are indeed supposed to cycle off of pre-workouts for around 2 weeks after 6 weeks of using the product which might be a reason that it isn't working, either that or you are immune to caffeine. Its always best to test and try around to find a product that meets your needs because in the world of pre-workout supplements there are those like jack3d, that are caffeine stimulant reliant supplements, or those like Animal Rage or Assault that focus on the amount of L-Arginine that you get which boost your pump and bloodflow
I'm planning on picking up something else soon. Need to test a a few out.

prtyrock
07-14-2011, 08:36 PM
I find it really hard to be able to choose between all the protein supplements for men (http://www.enutriments.com/protein) available out on the market today. I've heard that it's better to just make them yourself, is this true or would anyone suggest otherwise?

Deviation
07-14-2011, 09:53 PM
For protein, check out Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard 100% Whey. Very tasty, affordable, and its packed full of good stuff. I'll be posting a review tonight or tomorrow.

showit
08-31-2011, 03:49 PM
After reading this thread, I am still having a hard time making my own decision on what is the best protein shake (http://www.enutriments.com/protein/shakes). Of course everybody has their own opinion on what's best and what works better but at the end of the day, does it come down to only a matter personal opinion??

decu68
08-31-2011, 04:02 PM
Creatine is over-rated. While it does have some benefits it is never as much as it is led to believe. If you are a beginning weight lifter I would suggest NOT using this product. Listen, when you start out lifting you will see the greatest gains as your body is not used to the stresses you are putting on it and so will adapt. Your body will adapt and grow WITHOUT any supplements. TOO MANY people credit their gains to Creatine when really it was all you. When your body has adapted and slowed down and you hit some walls for growing, THEN I would suggest taking this supplement. If you start to make gains again then at least you will know it is working.

Creatine is naturally produced in your body by ways of red meats and such. If you take in too much Creatine, which many do, your body will just have you $hit it out; a waste of money.

For the most part the benefit of Creatine is to help in recovery which of course the supplement company "exaggerates" and says as you can recover faster you can lift again thus making bigger gains. Creatine does not work for everybody.

The only real TRIED and TRUE supplement is Protein. You can get this from eating foods but the supplement understand it only a convenience as it is ready to use. The majority of the other stuff is just crap sold by the billion dollar supplement industry.

decu68
08-31-2011, 04:21 PM
Protein probably comes down to your preference. Over the last 14 years the one I have found tastes the BEST is Dymatize ISO.100 Gourmet Chocolate. It mixes very well and tastes great.

Deviation
08-31-2011, 05:20 PM
After reading this thread, I am still having a hard time making my own decision on what is the best protein shake (http://www.enutriments.com/protein/shakes). Of course everybody has their own opinion on what's best and what works better but at the end of the day, does it come down to only a matter personal opinion??
Really they will all have the same basic components (excl. isolate specific). The best way to determine what you like is to try a few out. Buy the smaller tubs and try several out. Optimum Nutrition, Dymatize, and Gaspari are all affordable whey proteins.

I've tried several myself. I personally like ON and I like their flavors. So that's what I use. Ignore the proteins with items other than protein in them. You don't need those yet (or maybe ever).

method115
08-31-2011, 07:17 PM
It really all comes down to your diet. Are you getting enough creatine,protein,calories in your diet? A mass gainer will not make you bigger if your not eating more calories then your burn period. If your not getting enough protein from natural foods then maybe whey is the best way to go (I've heard it's the cheapest if not one of the cheapest forms of protein anyway).

I'd recommend a mass gainer if your not getting enough calories. I would recommend buying a decent quality mass gainer. I basically go for whats cheapest when it comes to protien. I would not recommend doing that with mass gainers.

Creatine is a great supplement and I would recommend using it. Even if you are just starting out. Yes you'll make gains without creatine anyone can even if they are not a beginner but Creatine helps this has been proven. There is no logical reason in waiting to take creatine as opposed to taking it right off the bat.

decu68
08-31-2011, 08:08 PM
Creatine is a great supplement and I would recommend using it. Even if you are just starting out. Yes you'll make gains without creatine anyone can even if they are not a beginner but Creatine helps this has been proven. There is no logical reason in waiting to take creatine as opposed to taking it right off the bat.

I have never seen any actual proof other than what the supplement industry tries to sell everybody on. And also word of mouth of those that use it but never have not. Here is the thing, one person tells another person and so on and so on and now you have a whole bunch of people on it thinking they got THEIR gains because of Creatine and now they are afraid if they go off it that they will lose their gains. Let people take credit for their gains because THEY earned them not because supplement. Generations of people were weight lifting years ago without it and making great gains prior to this supplement.

I'm not a big believer in Creatine. I started weight lifting in 1982; failed time after time after time. I got really serious with it in 1997. In 1997 I went from 193 lbs (chub) to 165 lbs (muscle) in around 3 months and was stronger and more fit than ever. I then continued lifting and within a year was around 193 lbs again. I got up to 207 lbs with now after 14 years 208 lbs. During this time I did try Creatine, I actually tried it probably 5 or 6 times (always hoping it would help; sucker!). I recorded everything and I gained nothing by taking it nor when going off it. Aside from perhaps recovering fast and a lighter wallet, it did not do much for me. Again, it doesn't work for anybody but I at least know my gains I earned those years ago were my own; without supplements. I did so by proper eating and eating the right stuff and right amount. ALL needs of a weight lifting can be done so without supplements.

Prior to taking anything I read up on it. I've looked at "studies" and some done by the medical profession such as your body will stop producing it naturally over time with you taking it however after being off it your body should restart making it. And then there are kidney/liver studies of how it can affect you trying to break it down in the quantities taken. How your body can only take so much and then your body will expel it through bowel movements. How excess can plug your system. Lots of information out there saying one way or another. But of course the supplement industry is going to push it as they make a tonne of cash on it and others. Always something new and improved but those companies don't have to prove anything for a number of years that it has been on the shelves and then remove it because of false claims only to come out again with something new and get that leeway again.

Nothing wrong with taking supplements if you want to spend the money. For the few who actually get benefits from them then that is awesome. For the majority they get a lighter wallet. The only thing I want is people to actually be educated and not believe the hype but find out things for themselves. Make your gains yourself and then pat yourself on the back for a job well done. Need to get over a hump then try supplements like Creatine and then document gains (or no gains). That is the only real way you will know if it worked or not. You start out with them then how will you ever know?

Deviation
09-01-2011, 01:02 AM
Creatine is one of the most highly argued/debated supplements.

It does NOT build muscle. It DOES draw water from your body into the muscles. So don't be confused by that. In other words, drink PLENTY of water.

There has been some concern about kidney/liver interaction with creatine though there hasn't been any solid research to indicate either way (good or bad). Not that I've run across anyhow.

Those things aside, I take creatine post workout (5g). I don't take anything else with creatine in it. Regular creatine monohydrate isn't expensive either. There are other "special", "refined", "modified" versions that will cost you quite a bit more. Crea-Pure and Con-Cret come to mind.

A decent read: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/873.html

I will say I agree that decu68 about skipping it as a beginner. You'll get gains (n00b gains if you will) without it.

decu68
09-01-2011, 05:45 PM
Good read Deviation; much the same information I have read before, thanks for making it available for others.

For the majority of us lifting we are looking to be bigger, stronger and faster; at least those are my goals. We want that edge especially when you see body builders, athletes, etc. Sadly the majority of us will NEVER look like that and why the supplement industry is raking in the cash. We all want that one thing to get us to the next level, make us look bigger, make us stronger, make us looking better but that only happens based on our genetic code. A small few can get there; I'm envious. For the rest of us to get to that level it would meaning having to cheat and do steroids, GH, etc. I don't want to do this; others don't either. Supplement companies prey upon us offering the moon and can't deliver. I agree that some supplements, and I mean very few, can help but in most of those cases this is only a convenience from having to make those foods containing what we need.

Creatine has not worked for me. I am an older adult now in my 40's however I consider that young; still more fit than the majority of 20 and 30 years olds out there. I never tried it in my 20's however tried it in my 30's but I could see no discernible results and why stopped; though I tried it over and over HOPING that this time would be the time. Also at that time in my life, and up and till 2 years ago, I was very active with weight lifting 4-6 days a week and training both Taekwondo and Brazilian Jujitsu on top of that 3 to 4 times a week including some competing. "Also, creatine does not seem to increase endurance or improve performance in highly trained athletes." While I wouldn't count myself as a "highly trained athlete" I was most certainly "highly active" and could account for no improvement.

Knowledge is power. Ignorance is bliss. Misinformation gets passed on from one person to the next till it is believe to be true and correct; that is a sin.

I'm not against taking supplements, I will probably one day try supplements again, but there is no substitution then working hard with intensity and determination.

BrianV
09-12-2011, 06:39 PM
I don't bother with the weight gainers. They're too expensive for me. You can buy bulk maltodextrin or waxy maize and make your own for cheaper. I usually add peanut butter or almond butter and oatmeal and maybe a banana to my protein shake to add a few extra calories.

Deviation
09-12-2011, 07:59 PM
I'll second the maize. I've recently added that to my post-workout shake and its been a help with recovery. PB works pretty good too. Downside is that I LOVE peanut butter so I have to watch how much I eat.

handydagger
10-03-2011, 09:51 AM
Why Creatine is not working for some?! :)
Beside Genetic

When it reaches your stomach may begin to break down creatine into its metabolized form creatinine. Creatinine is a waste product that must be filtered out of the body by the kidneys.

Assuming you are consuming 5 grams of Creatine your body may benefit only survived 1-2 or less gram or even nothing espically with people with stomach disorders 
Many other factors affect this, your stomach acidity (not Creatine friendly  ) and pre Creatine Meal for that it's recommended to consume Creatine on Empty stomach.

So what is best way to increase Creatine benefits ?
Divide your creatine dosage on 4-5 doses in small amounts i.e 500mg-1 gram followed by at least 8 oz of water in each consume and make sure you don’t eat or drink anything tell 20 min passed.

=====================

What I take?

=> 6:45 am
=>Amino Acid ( 5 gram )
=>Creatine AKG forum ( 375 mg )
=>Glutamine ( 1 g )
=>Multivitamins
=>Fish Oil ( 2 grams )

7:15 am ( Breakfast)

=> 10:30 am
=>Creatine AKG forum ( 375 mg )
=>Glutamine ( 1 g )
=>Fish Oil ( 2 grams)

10:45 am Meal 2

=> 1:30 pm
=> Creatine AKG forum ( 375 mg )
=> Glutamine ( 1 g )
=> Meal 3 (Protein Shake)

=> 4:00 pm
=> Meal 4

=> 7:00 pm
=>Jack3d ( 1 scope )
=>Creatine AKG forum ( 375 mg )
=>Glutamine ( 1 g )
=> 10 grams of Amino Acid

=> 7:45 pm Workout

=> 9:30 pm
=>Meal 5

=> 10:00+~ before sleep Casein Protein shake + 2-3 grams of Glutamine

(Above schedule may contain errors and not balanced)
(My opinion based on personal experience and reading articles about Creatine online)
(Sorry for my English ^>^)

And good luck for everyone

kunjmalhotra
09-11-2017, 07:43 AM
Hi, Good Afternoon Friends, How are you all?. Hi, Mate I just want to tell you that Aminoz Creatine the best pre workout supplement is perfect for you. So try this supplement. Go through its website once and then buy this supplement and use it. beleive me, you will get amazing results quickly.There is no risk of side effects of it. You can choose any flavor or size of it. You can also buy this supplement from other online marketplaces as Flipkart, Snapdeal, Amazon etc.

pharmascience
09-28-2017, 08:20 AM
Pharmascience Health Gainer for contains calories in bulk and Weight Gain
A Health Gainer is a Pharma science - the Indian Ayurveda product. It is basically a weight work additive product which generally comes in a powder form which contains calories in bulk. It is full of proteins, fats and carbohydrates which gives your body an ultimate improvement and a muscular growth.
For more visit
PHARMASCIENCE

Ginaathletic
09-28-2017, 11:33 AM
Creatine is a “nitrogenous organic acid that occurs naturally in vertebrates.” Creatine is found most abundantly in the following Food; Beef, Salmon & Tuna. You can also consume Creatine, as a Supplement which you can pretty much find everywhere. The Creatine that’s found in Supps is a white powder. It can be mixed with any liquid, and drank quite easily too.

Creatine is Cell Volumizer. This means your Muscle Membrane is able to retain more water, and this allows your Muscles to Repair & Grow more effectively. Cell Volume helps facilitate the process of getting amino acids inside of your Muscle Cells. This turns on Protein Synthesis, and suppresses protein breakdown, especially during the very important workout windows of Pre-Workout, During-Workout & Post-Workout.

Basically, Creatine allows your Muscles to “Do More Work” - and ultimately allows them to Repair & Grow faster. It’s important to note that (the average) human body Naturally Produces around 1 gram of Creatine, per day in young adults. We make a little less, as we age. Therefore, it’s advisable to consume between 3 - 5 grams of Creatine Daily. The more Lean Muscle Mass you have, the more Creatine you should consume.

So if you’re over 200 pounds and below 20% Body Fat, then 5 grams would be better for you. On the other hand, if you’re below 150 pounds, and below 20% Body Fat, then 3 grams would be all you need. It’s not advisable, to ALWAYS be taking Creatine. If you’re taking Creatine ALL of the time it just becomes less and less effective, as time goes on.

Your Kidneys and Liver might also be stressed, so ONLY use Creatine for 2-3 Months at a time. And then NOT use Creatine for the following 2-3 Months. Just repeat this Cycling ON & OFF of Creatine, and you should absolutely get Bigger, Faster & Stronger each time you Cycle Creatine!

Front Loading Creatine ensures that there’s ample Creatine in your bloodstream, for your “Cycling On” Creatine phase. There are quite a few different suggestions of how much, and how long you should Front Load Creatine. The General Rule for Front Loading Creatine is 20 grams a Day for 7 Days. I just ask that you consult a doctor, or medical care professional before you start taking Creatine.